Ivf

Priming protocols-what with and who for?

I am going to address a very debated topic and one of huge interest for those who carry the tags DOR or POF and need ovarian stimulation for assisted reproduction.

The way IVF works, we all know the more eggs we make, the better it is. And this because in vitro fertilisation is all about narrowing down the chances to finding the best egg(s). It is a matter of logic because more eggs retrieved will give us more fertilised eggs, hence higher chances of pregnancy. Also, women who respond better to stimulation protocols usually have a better egg quality (PCOS do not enter in this category of better egg quality, we will discuss this later on). Last but not least, “the more eggs the merrier” principle has also financial connotations. With prices so high for stimulation meds, monitoring, retrieval and laboratory, you’re far better off paying thousands and thousands for ten eggs than for one.

While women over 35 and those under 35 but dealing with POF and DOR might be worse responders than the fertile population generally is, lots of protocols have been invented and experienced over the years, some of them with great results and quite encouraging pregnancy rates. One of the approaches is that of using luteal phase adjuvants, hoping to create a better environment for the follicles and preparing the ovaries for the following stimulation cycle.

BIRTH CONTROL – By far the most used approach before a medicated cycle. Its main purpose is to give your ovaries a rest, and give them the chance to start the next cycle with a clean slate. Useful for reducing cysts, it also comes, unfortunately, with a bad side effect: the dreaded suppression. BC pretreatment in IVF protocols establishes an estrogenic environment and increases sex hormone-binding globulin levels while decreasing follicular androgen levels. But by putting the ovaries to sleep the risk is they might not wake up well enough… Sometimes, we end up with a lower antral follicle number, and we are facing the need of stimulating for a longer period of time, and with higher doses of stims, which might in turn, affect egg quality for older patients.

Here is a very interesting study, where  even young egg donors have experienced lower AMH levels and lower numbers of oocytes after being put on birth control.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3637242/

If in the case of a young donor, having  5 eggs retrieved  instead of 10 might not make much of a difference, because donors are chosen to be young and healthy, therefore having a great egg quality, things are quite different with us, older women, where quality as well as quantity might be a problem.

TESTOSTERONE PRIMING- Relatively new,  and controversial. If you listen to Dr Sher, a very famous and respected Reproduction Endocrinologist, you should run away from testosterone exposure, especially if you are not very young anymore. If you listen to me, LOL, my biggest failure of a cycle was the one I primed with testosterone gel. While I usually would have an antral follicle count of 9-10, one week of testosterone gel reduced my AFC to a whopping 2 (two), and thats what I got until the end of stims, when I told my RE there is no way I am going to waste an IVF cycle on two eggs, and converted to IUI. Even he himself later admitted that testosterone priming was a mistake in my case (I was 41 at the time, this might have been a reason) and he is known to be a very stubborn and proud one…And it was no coincidence: all the other cycles I ever did (and we are talking 12 with full protocol, my afc was never under 8)

This being said, there are many studies out there who scientifically prove testosterone priming works for many low responders. If you read this analysis of several studies (https://http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4061182/) you will see the mean age of the patients was 36-37, so there….probably that’s the key, being younger is better for testosterone priming. I personally guess there is no way of knowing until you try.

Oh, and most important: I grew no beard during the treatment, neither did I engage in violent exchanges with people in pubs 😛

ESTROGEN PRIMING– It avoids the suppressive effect of BCP on the ovaries. In addition, the use of estrogen during the pretreatment cycle prevents premature recruitment of follicles that can reduce the number of follicles available for stimulation. Studies have shown that this protocol allows more gradual and coordinated growth of follicles resulting in improvement of embryo quality and quantity. For me this has been the only way I could avoid the growth of the horrible LEAD follicle, the scarecrow of IVF…I personally took estrace pills, but patches are used with the same success.

You might want to read this study https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/22160464/ and also this analysis of several studies https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23887073

I believe it is essential to have a doctor you really trust. I, for one, could not trust any doctor who insults my intelligence by imagining that in this age and time I have no ways of gathering enough information as to educate myself on matters concerning my health and my life. Would this auto-education give me a medical degree? Obviously not! And I do not pretend it does. What it does give me, is at least basic knowledge, so useful in understanding where I stand, and if the direction I am heading to is the good one. It gave me the power of standing up and saying NO, when I knew for a fact that the approach I was suggested would be wrong for me (I wish I knew what I know now, when I was suggested the testosterone priming…) It gave me the power to fight me RE for the estrogen priming protocol, that as an anecdote he himself invented, but not so much used afterwards, for fear of oversupression. I fought him and he gave in, and later admitted I was right. It also gave me the power to say NO to him for yet another high dose stimulation protocol, and when he wouldn’t give in and would insist low dose is “counterproductive” for low responders (sic!) I would say bye to him, and find another RE who was willing to try on me my estrogen priming low dose protocol. And we got 8 eggs, instead of my usual 2-3.

I don’t know if it is my journalistic background, or maybe just me being a stubborn Aries, but I am a strong believer in the “Knowledge is power” part, as much as it might sound  like a cliche.

Apparently you believe so too, or else you wouldn’t be here, trying to find out more ❤

Sources: NCBI

 

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Infertility, Ivf

How many eggs are not enough?

There has been a question asked very often on IVF with DOR pages: how many eggs are needed for ivf and what is the inferior limit?
One of the big paradoxes of this DOR/IVF thing is this one: most of the RE’s recommend DOR/POF patients to hurry and do IVF cause “they are running out of time (and eggs)”
The RE’s also say that for IVF to be successful, the more eggs, the better.
We all know (personal experience mostly) that DOR/POF patients have anything BUT many eggs.
So how do you marry DOR and IVF with the “many eggs needed” approach?
Well, you don’t!
Unfortunately medically assisted procreation has become more and more of a business lately.
What started out as a genuine desire to help infertile couples procreate, turned into the rush for the golden egg in the eyes of fertility clinics that are being more and more numerous, some offering bargain packages that would make Walmart and Costco green with envy.
Patients are put on birth control so that they all fit in the same batch, they all have their periods and stimulation schedules coordinated
It has turned into a huge business bringing millions and millions in for clinics
Do we as patients benefit in the end?
Sometimes we do, and when we get to hold our miracle babies we would forget all the bad and focus on our success
But what happens with the ones that don’t fit?
Clinics mostly focus on success rates, cause that’s what brings in the cash. And more patients.
Therefore they cherish the convenient patient the most: and that would be the youngish couple with male fertility issues, the patient with bad or no tubes, the pcos patient…
And what about us? The DOR, the POF, the over 40 patient?
We can’t be put on birth control cause it’s suppressive, we don’t fit in batches cause our periods are irregular, our FSH is high, our response to meds is under average and we certainly don’t raise the success rates of any clinic with our 2-3 eggs retrieved…
Heck, some clinics don’t even let us get to their door, we are being served the donor egg speech over the phone and told that an AFC of less than 4 is Grandma style so… bye Felicia…
And that’s why I am focusing on empowering women to stand up for their rights and ask for what they truly deserve: a tailored made medical approach.
When you buy shoes, you don’t go in a shoe shop that sells only size 7 shoes, cause you might be wearing a 5, an 8 or even a 10!
You won’t buy size 7 shoes if you’re wearing a 9, right? You pay for them, you might as well get some shoes that fit you well!
Do you pay the RE?! Oh hell yes!
Do you have to accept whatever the RE serves you, without the right to ask for something else, or to go somewhere else to someone who cares to work for and with you!?
No way!
That’s why I encourage ladies in my FB groups to keep up looking for THE good RE, the one who is less interested by the stats, and more interested in giving them what they need and want.
There are doctors like this out there, ladies!
Some of us have been lucky to have found them, although more often than not, not from the first try 🙂
There are the doctors who don’t choose their patients based on the number of eggs they produce.
The ones that give DOR a chance.
The ones that are not afraid of low stims and natural IVF, the ones that retrieve two eggs, or maybe just one, without adding frustration upon frustration on a woman already having to deal with the disappointment of not being able to get pregnant in the first place.
So to answer the question: what is the inferior limit for ivf and how many eggs do we have to have?
Well … certainly 15 eggs have a better chance of success than 1 egg only, it’s a matter of numbers and of narrowing down the chances to the best one.
But that doesn’t mean that 1 egg shouldn’t get the opportunity of a chance!
Of course that with one egg chances are about the same as with iui, but let’s not forget iui is not always an option, and for couples who absolutely need ivf, one egg should be given just about the same credit as more eggs.
We should all be given our chance, and the right to follow our dreams 🙂